Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus is again cooking the books and telling journalists lies to justify secret hearings at the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC).
Given the blowtorch is currently being put on the NACC, with the Inspector of the National Anti-Corruption Commission, Gail Furness SC, announcing (13/6/24) that she will investigate the NACC for alleged “corrupt conduct” regarding the Robodebt cover-up, one would have thought the government would stop telling lies about the NACC.
I am probably the best credentialled journalist on Mark Dreyfus’s and the government’s lies on this key issue because I investigated the matter when it was happening in October 2022.
I also have NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos on video, as per below, refuting Dreyfus’s and the government’s lies and Hatzistergos makes the obvious point in the video “I beg to differ with people who think you can make findings against people, serious findings against people, in private”.
Just for the record, the NSW ICAC have 100% of their hearings in public. Not 4%, or 5% or even 49% which are 3 different figures that the government have said publicly at different times to justify secret hearings at the federal National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC).
How the scam and lies work
In 2022 when the Labor Party introduced legislation for the NACC they did a deal with the Liberal Party for the NACC to only have public hearings in exceptional circumstances.
In September 2022 Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus said on the ABC’s 7.30 Report that the NSW ICAC only have about 5% of their hearings in public when he was trying to justify the federal NACC only having public hearings in exceptional circumstances. That was a lie Mark Dreyfus made up.
I sent an email to the NSW ICAC in 2022 with questions and published an article which proved Mark Dreyfus had lied on national TV to try to justify the NACC have secret hearings.
In October 2022 the Joint Select Committee on National Anti-Corruption Commission Legislation, which was set up to inquire into and report on the provisions of the NACC legislation, held public hearings. I watched via the internet and NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos gave evidence and totally rebutted Mark Dreyfus’s 5% lie, which was put to him by former Labor Senator Linda White, as per the below video.
Labor MP Tania Lawrence manipulated one of NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos’ answers and interpreted to suit Labor’s agenda to then claim that NSW ICAC had public hearings in just over 40% of cases. Once again it was a lie.
The stats that Labor were using for their lies are the NSW ICAC’s 2020-2021 report which has the below stats:
On page 37 of the NSW ICAC 2020-2021 report, it says: “In 2020–21, the Commission conducted 85 compulsory examinations and three public inquiries (operations Keppel, Witney and Paragon) over 68 days.” (Click here to see the NSW ICAC 2020-2021 report)
The NSW ICAC had 3 public hearings and no private hearings in 2020-2021. That means 100% of the NSW ICAC’s hearings were public.
Mark Dreyfus used the 85 “compulsory examinations” claiming they were private hearings and added the 3 public hearings, and rounded the 3 percent up, to get 5 percent are public hearings.
But the “compulsory examinations” are not hearings at all, and they are not called that in the NSW ICAC Report. They are private interviews with witnesses in preparation for the public hearings. So, for example, one of the public hearings “Operation Kepple” would have included 20 to 30 of the “compulsory examinations” as part of the initial investigation before they had the public hearing.
As per the below video you will see NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos say “If you look at the extent we do hearings, about 40 per cent of the hearing time – just over 40 per cent actually – is done in public,” he said.”
What NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos was actually saying when put in context of all his evidence is that public hearings have just over 40% of their time in public. But the rest of the time is the preparation work they do such as compulsory examinations to gather evidence which they do in private.
On the 19th of October 2022 the SMH published an article and also got it wrong because they obviously took their lead from the lie Labor MP Tania Lawrence said at the Joint Select Committee on National Anti-Corruption Commission Legislation.
The SMH said “In 2020-21, the NSW ICAC held three public inquiries, which spanned 68 days of public hearings or 48 per cent of hearing time, compared with 85 compulsory examinations of witnesses in private across 72 days.”
The 85 compulsory examinations of witnesses is preparation work and a large percentage of those would also give evidence in public at the 3 hearings so the 48% means nothing.
But Mark Dreyfus has now used “an unnamed “spokesperson” at his Attorney-General’s Department” to blur the issue again by claiming that 49% of all hearing days were held in public which implies 51% of all hearing days were in private which is not true. This led to journalist Anthony Klan to publish an article saying “around 50 per cent of ICAC hearings are held in public.
Labor changed their lie from “hearings” after they were caught out lying to “hearing days” to keep the lie going.
There were no other hearings, in private or public, at the NSW ICAC in 2020–21, except for the 3 public hearings already mentioned above, so 100% of the NSW ICAC hearings were in public. That means Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus, former Labor Senator Linda White and Labor MP Tania Lawrence all lied on the public record to deceive the public trying to justify secret hearings at the NACC.
And now we also have “an unnamed “spokesperson” at his Attorney-General’s Department” lying on behalf of Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus.
Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus latest lie
A-G Mark Dreyfus’s latest lies are to independent journalist Anthony Klan who publishes The Klaxon website. In an article published on the 8th of June 2024 titled “NACCered: How Dreyfus fudged the figures to deliver a secret regulator” it starts off:
Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus used fudged data to justify implementing the almost entirely secret National Anti-Corruption Commission, which vastly understated the level of NSW anti-corruption hearings held in public.
After the Albanese Government installed a highly opaque NACC shortly after winning power, it justified the move by stating the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) held only “3.5 per cent of all hearings” in public.
In fact, around 50 per cent of ICAC hearings are held in public — over 14 times more.
For the 2020-21 year, which the 3.5 per cent figure was base on, Dreyfus’ office has confirmed the number of NSW ICAC hearing days held in public versus private was actually “49 per cent”.
The figures were fudged by using the “number” of hearings held in public, rather than the amount, or number of days hearings were held in public versus private.
Later in the article it says:
The Klaxon put the matter to Dreyfus, with the responses now being reported here.
Dreyfus did not respond directly to our questions, but via an unnamed “spokesperson” at his Attorney-General’s Department.
“The ICAC Annual report for 2020-21 indicates that ICAC held 85 compulsory examinations (referred to in the NACC Bill as private hearings) so a total of 88 hearings all up. On this basis, 3.5% of all hearings were held in public. The figures for the previous financial year are similar,” said the official statement. (Emphasis the Attorney-General Department).
The response continued:
“Commissioner Hatzistergos seems to have been referring to the number of hearing days held in private vs public – noting that a single hearing can go for many days. For 2020-21 there were: 72 private hearings days and 68 public days — a total of 140. So, 49% of all hearing days were held in public”. (Emphasis the Attorney-General Department). (Click here to read the full article)
Anthony Klan’s scoop wasn’t the scoop he thought it was but that is because it is hard to research a story from a couple of years ago that has been tainted with a lot of lies by politicians.
But Klan did get a scoop in that Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus sent his questions to “an unnamed “spokesperson” at his Attorney-General’s Department” because Dreyfus didn’t want anyone in his office getting their hands dirty by telling lies to a journalist on his behalf.
My previous investigation and reporting on the issue
On the 9th of October 2022 I published an article titled “Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus cooks the books to justify secret hearings at the National Anti-Corruption Commission and video you won’t see at a Federal ICAC” which starts off:
Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus is lying and deceiving the Australian public regarding the percentage of public hearings the NSW ICAC has in an attempt to justify secret hearings at the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC). Having secret hearings at the NACC is not about protecting reputations it is about helping criminals hide crimes.
Mark Dreyfus claims that the NSW ICAC only has 5% of their hearings in the public so I contacted the NSW ICAC, as per the emails below, and they sent me a link to their latest annual report for the 2020-2021 year. The report shows Mr Dreyfus has cooked the books and is lying.
Normally the opposition (Liberal and National Parties) would be very quick to point out such blatant public lies but they are working with the government to make sure voters rarely get to see the National Anti-Corruption Commission hearings in public. This should concern every Australian. (Click here to read more)
On the 19th of October 2022 I published an article titled “NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos exposes the lie being told by federal Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus to justify secret hearings” which starts off:
NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos, in the below video, exposes the lie that federal Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus and the Labor Party have been saying publicly to justify secret hearings at the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC).
NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos was giving evidence at the Committee set up to review the NACC legislation and the Chairperson Labor Senator Linda White said to Commissioner Hatzistergos as part of a question that the NSW ICAC only has about 4% of their hearings publicly.
The 4% or 5% figure is a lie which I pointed out in an article that I published on the 9th of October titled “Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus cooks the books to justify secret hearings at the National Anti-Corruption Commission and video you won’t see at a Federal ICAC”. (Click here to read more)
I wrote that article after I contacted the NSW ICAC and asked them questions about the 5% Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus had said in an interview so the NSW ICAC knew he was telling lies about the NSW ICAC’s hearings.
Senator Linda White changed the figure from 5% to 4% but it is almost certain she was given the question from Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus to ask NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos hoping he would support the lie.
But Commissioner Hatzistergos didn’t hold back in the below video and put a sword to the lie. That left Senator Linda White looking embarrassed, and it was clear she did not know where the 4% figure came from which further indicates the question came from Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus.
Towards the end of the video, Senator David Shoebridge asks about public hearings and Commissioner Hatzistergos makes the point about public hearings keep the organisation (NSW ICAC) accountable and that he does not support the idea that you can make findings of corruption in a private hearing.
I have filed submissions with the NACC Committee reviewing the legislation who is having public hearings this week and my article pointing out the 4%/5% lie is part of those submissions, so they knew it was a lie yet still put the question to NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos. (Click here to read the full article)
The fact that Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus and other federal politicians have lied and continue to lie to justify secret NACC hearings shows that the secret hearings could never be justified in the first place.
The fact that they continue to tell those same lies while the Inspector of the National Anti-Corruption Commission, Gail Furness SC, is investigating the NACC for alleged corruption shows how they think they are above the law and unaccountable which proves the NACC has achieved very little.
Please use Facebook, “X”, email and the other buttons below and help promote this article.
Kangaroo Court of Australia is independent media and is 100% crowdfunded by readers like yourself so please support on the links below. Click on the PayPal button below to donate or for other donation options click here to go to the Donations page.
Thank you for your support.
For the KCA t-shirt shop click here.
For the Fugitive Clothing t-shirt shop click here
Join the free email subscription below and you will be notified immediately I publish new articles which is normally twice a week.
Discover more from Kangaroo Court of Australia
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
I am fed up with both major federal parties. They’re both tainted with the smell of corruption, and don’t seem to care.
good follow up.
I count this as the biggest broken promise of the labour party and what’s worse is they have lied to try and cover this up.
labour voters are not as dumb at liberal boomers and I expect running up to election and independent attack adds will smash labour on this information. so much so they are likely to have to get rid of elbo or loose too many seats.
add the draftus and whistle blower deceptions as well. labour at best is a minority gov next election.
they have no idea how bad it will be based on the deceptional behavior and the kickback that will result. all well documented by independent news guys like here..
Thee is no excuse for a secret NACC
The majors have lost my vote
Aussie Bob
Seems to be some confusion with the used word of ‘compulsory’
After reading this detailed report by KCA and many previously well reported matters by KCA, I have come to the conclusion that it may be more appropriate to describe some politicians as “Compulsive Liars” Compulsive/Compulsory.
Just like when the truth eventually came out about the discusting activities of the previous government, the truth is coming out about the incumbent government who it would appear are not much different than their predecessors..
The lawyers who rule Australia have a knack of avoiding accountability as seen by the Knackering of the NACC. In the Colon-y of Australia run by an exploitive Judicial structure it should come as no no surprise to the villagers, that they would construct a body to investigate corruption that is no more than a toothless tiger.
Why is it the Judiciary continues to ignore the wishes of the people? They, like all Public Servants, are paid from the Public Purse. This makes the Public their Boss and gives us every right to tell them how we want them to act. The Australian Constitution is over-generous to the Judiciary when it comes to tenure.
Once again, good work KCA.
You are keeping us informed about the grubby nature of the major parties, they must think we are mugs.
Time to turn the heat up!
The NACC also could not be bothered investigating Robert’s Synergy/360 or Tourism Australia scandals.
The commissioner is useless.
No wonder those I talk to lately are not voting for the Libs or Labor at the next election. Bring on the Indies I say.
Well, well, well … why am I not surprised!
Based on what has been presented here, and I have no reason or information to consider otherwise, it would appear Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus has been EXPOSED for LYING to justify secret hearings at the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), even as the NACC faces scrutiny for IMHO, alleged corrupt conduct related to the Robodebt cover-up.
Despite PUBLIC evidence and statements from NSW ICAC Commissioner John Hatzistergos refuting these lies, Dreyfus and other government officials appear to maintain these manipulative statistics to MISLEAD the PUBLIC.
The ongoing pattern of SECRET hearings policy, despite clear evidence to the contrary, highlights a critical issue of TRANSPARENCY and ACCOUNTABILITY in government and opposition, necessitating PUBLIC and FORMAL scrutiny.
IMHO, the Labor and the Liberal National coalition parties are NOT TO BE TRUSTED!!! I for one will not be voting for either!
Decision makers should not be allowed to declare that they are closing their investigation because “it is not in the public interest”.
That is a cop out and a cover up.
The deep state is protecting its own.
If the NACC is no longer involved, then unseal the sealed section.
The DPP will have to take an interest once the media and the public read it.
Albanese and Dreyfus seem determined to maintain their image of Liberal-Lite. Pussy footing around corruption is never a good look, so why do they pursue it?
The public is already waking up to the fact that this Government appears desperate to keep in the good books with the Murdoch press and its mates. Yet that same Press despises them, condemns at every opportunity and will do everything in its power to return its mates to power, it just doesn’t make sense!
Thank you for maintaining the pressure on this issue.